A wave by any other size....

 > Todays trivia question: who is right?
 >
 > --riverman

Depends if you're in the river or in the surf.

or Hawaii.

Geoff
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

riverman wrote:
 > Todays trivia question: who is right?
 >
 > --riverman
 >

Agreed!

I always have to remember to double the surf forecast (and then decrease
a bit for inaccuracy) before trying to get other boaters to go surfing

JIM
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

riverman wrote:

 > I always enjoyed the discrepancy between sizing ocean waves and sizing river
 > waves. Ocean waves are assumed (fairly correctly) to be centered on the
 > local sea level, with a trough in front and a peak between the troughs. In a
 > 4-foot ocean wave, there is a 4 foot deep trough in front, and a 4 foot high
 > peak on the wave, leaving an 8 foot wave face.

This is not the way they're forecast by NOAA. A 4' sea is 4' from trough to
peak. Either that, or their forecasts are wildly inflated.

--
Regards

Brian
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message

 >
 >
 > riverman wrote:
 >
  > > I always enjoyed the discrepancy between sizing ocean waves and sizing
river
  > > waves. Ocean waves are assumed (fairly correctly) to be centered on the
  > > local sea level, with a trough in front and a peak between the troughs.
In a
  > > 4-foot ocean wave, there is a 4 foot deep trough in front, and a 4 foot
high
  > > peak on the wave, leaving an 8 foot wave face.
 >
 > This is not the way they're forecast by NOAA. A 4' sea is 4' from trough
to
 > peak. Either that, or their forecasts are wildly inflated.

No, you're right. NOAA uses the same standard as river runners: trough to
peak. But surfers (specifically Hawaiin surfers) have their own formula, and
since a lot of the surfer terminology follows the fad, surfers worldwide
tend to follow the Hawaiian model. Which leads to a lot of non-surfers also
following the model, which leads to the confusion. Check out
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://surfing.about.com/library/weekly/aa042001.htm" target="_blank">http://surfing.about.com/library/weekly/aa042001.htm</a>

--riverman
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

riverman wrote:

 > No, you're right. NOAA uses the same standard as river runners: trough to
 > peak. But surfers (specifically Hawaiin surfers) have their own formula, and
 > since a lot of the surfer terminology follows the fad, surfers worldwide
 > tend to follow the Hawaiian model. Which leads to a lot of non-surfers also
 > following the model, which leads to the confusion. Check out
<font color=purple> > <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://surfing.about.com/library/weekly/aa042001.htm</font" target="_blank">http://surfing.about.com/library/weekly/aa042001.htm</font</a>>

Ah, that explains it, but that sure is a screwy way of measuring waves. As for
East Coasters doubling the wave height...it's BS.

--
Regards

Brian
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

Maybe it's just an effort to keep up with the wave heights we experience on
the West Coast.

"Mine's twice as big as yours!"

John Adams

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message

 >
 >
 > riverman wrote:
 >
  > > No, you're right. NOAA uses the same standard as river runners: trough
to
  > > peak. But surfers (specifically Hawaiin surfers) have their own formula,
and
  > > since a lot of the surfer terminology follows the fad, surfers worldwide
  > > tend to follow the Hawaiian model. Which leads to a lot of non-surfers
also
  > > following the model, which leads to the confusion. Check out
<font color=green>  > > <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://surfing.about.com/library/weekly/aa042001.htm</font" target="_blank">http://surfing.about.com/library/weekly/aa042001.htm</font</a>>
 >
 > Ah, that explains it, but that sure is a screwy way of measuring waves. As
for
 > East Coasters doubling the wave height...it's BS.
 >
 > --
 > Regards
 >
 > Brian
 >
 >
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

in article 3F698D55.D55F0A92.RemoveThis@att.net, Brian Nystrom at brian.nystrom.RemoveThis@att.net
wrote on 9/18/03 3:43 AM:

 > Ah, that explains it, but that sure is a screwy way of measuring waves. As for
 > East Coasters doubling the wave height...it's BS.
 >
 > --
 > Regards
 >
 > Brian

Hi Folks,

Actually, mathematically, that makes more sense than measuring
trough-to-crest. If one considers waves modeled by a sine wave, the mean
height measurement would be called the amplitude.

Best,

Chuck
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.wildcountry.info" target="_blank">http://www.wildcountry.info</a>
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message

 >
 >
 > riverman wrote:
 >
  > > No, you're right. NOAA uses the same standard as river runners: trough
to
  > > peak. But surfers (specifically Hawaiin surfers) have their own formula,
and
  > > since a lot of the surfer terminology follows the fad, surfers worldwide
  > > tend to follow the Hawaiian model. Which leads to a lot of non-surfers
also
  > > following the model, which leads to the confusion. Check out
<font color=green>  > > <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://surfing.about.com/library/weekly/aa042001.htm</font" target="_blank">http://surfing.about.com/library/weekly/aa042001.htm</font</a>>
 >
 > Ah, that explains it, but that sure is a screwy way of measuring waves. As
for
 > East Coasters doubling the wave height...it's BS.
 >
 >

I can't generalize for ALL east coasters, but it was on the right coast
where I first encountered this. Some fishermen were on a raft trip, and
estimated what I called a 6 foot wave as being a '3 foot wave'. I figured
they just had poor spatial sense, but they explained that other fishermen
also rated the sea swells from midline to peak. I've watched this happen all
over, but never knew where it originated.

--riverman
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

"Charles Pezeshki" wrote in message


brian.nystrom DeleteThis @att.net
 > wrote on 9/18/03 3:43 AM:
 >
  > > Ah, that explains it, but that sure is a screwy way of measuring waves.
As for
  > > East Coasters doubling the wave height...it's BS.
  > >
  > > --
  > > Regards
  > >
  > > Brian
 >
 > Hi Folks,
 >
 > Actually, mathematically, that makes more sense than measuring
 > trough-to-crest. If one considers waves modeled by a sine wave, the mean
 > height measurement would be called the amplitude.
 >

Which always gives me trouble, because as a boatman, I instinctively think
of wave amplitude as trough to crest, and I have to change my mindset.

Likewise, some guy who builds a dock on the shore that sits 5 feet above
sealevel would have a hard time being convinced that a 5-foot wave would
only come halfway up. He'd think that a 5-foot wave would hit the dock.


--riverman
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:17:13 +0100, "riverman"
wrote:

 > Likewise, some guy who builds a dock on the shore that sits 5 feet
 > above sealevel would have a hard time being convinced that a 5-foot
 > wave would only come halfway up. He'd think that a 5-foot wave
 > would hit the dock.

Good point...and from a small boater's perspective, when I'm in the
trough of a large dumping wave, about to be mercilessly trashed, I
consider every ounce of water that is about to bury me. So...if it's
ten feet from where I'm sitting to the crest of the wave, I'll take
the liberty to consider it a "ten foot wave".

- --
Melissa

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=4Jbb
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 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

In article , "riverman"
writes:

 >
 >I can't generalize for ALL east coasters, but it was on the right coast
 >where I first encountered this. Some fishermen were on a raft trip, and
 >estimated what I called a 6 foot wave as being a '3 foot wave'. I figured
 >they just had poor spatial sense, but they explained that other fishermen
 >also rated the sea swells from midline to peak. I've watched this happen all
 >over, but never knew where it originated.
 >
 >--riverman
 >
 >

Myron - Been gone for a bit. Did Life in the Congo (Part IV or V) ever get
posted?
At one point it was hours away from being on the net.


Blakely LaCroix
Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA.
RBP Clique member # 86.

The best adventure is yet to come.
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

"Blakely LaCroix" wrote in message



 >
  > >
  > >I can't generalize for ALL east coasters, but it was on the right coast
  > >where I first encountered this. Some fishermen were on a raft trip, and
  > >estimated what I called a 6 foot wave as being a '3 foot wave'. I figured
  > >they just had poor spatial sense, but they explained that other fishermen
  > >also rated the sea swells from midline to peak. I've watched this happen
all
  > >over, but never knew where it originated.
  > >
  > >--riverman
  > >
  > >
 >
 > Myron - Been gone for a bit. Did Life in the Congo (Part IV or V) ever
get
 > posted?
 > At one point it was hours away from being on the net.
 >

Hey railtramp: Good job keeping track of the episodes! Its actually <is>
Part V, and I've been accidentally mis-labeling it because I posted Part IV
right off the screen the night of the mugging and forgot to save a copy to
my HD and my own files are therefore incomplete. But Part V is almost ready
and will be posted Monday. Its about my first road-trip to the interior that
took place last year, and I'm contrasting it to the same road trip I took 2
weeks ago.

"Hours away"....<grin>. Manana, mon...

--riverman
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size.... 

"riverman" wrote in message ...


  > >
  > >
  > > riverman wrote:
  > >
   > > > No, you're right. NOAA uses the same standard as river runners: trough
 > to
   > > > peak. But surfers (specifically Hawaiin surfers) have their own formula,
 > and
   > > > since a lot of the surfer terminology follows the fad, surfers worldwide
   > > > tend to follow the Hawaiian model. Which leads to a lot of non-surfers
 > also
   > > > following the model, which leads to the confusion. Check out
<font color=brown>   > > > <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://surfing.about.com/library/weekly/aa042001.htm</font" target="_blank">http://surfing.about.com/library/weekly/aa042001.htm</font</a>>
  > >
  > > Ah, that explains it, but that sure is a screwy way of measuring waves. As
 > for
  > > East Coasters doubling the wave height...it's BS.
  > >
  > >
 >
 > I can't generalize for ALL east coasters, but it was on the right coast
 > where I first encountered this. Some fishermen were on a raft trip, and
 > estimated what I called a 6 foot wave as being a '3 foot wave'. I figured
 > they just had poor spatial sense, but they explained that other fishermen
 > also rated the sea swells from midline to peak. I've watched this happen all
 > over, but never knew where it originated.
 >
 > --riverman

This one got my attention. I called Environment Canada and the weather
folks. They finally replied.
Sea State Forecasts for wave height are trough to peak. It is the
whole range that hurts ships.
I was fairly sure that is how it was done but the posting had me think
again.
Now looking over my shoulder and up at a four foot wave that is about
to clean the water bottle and flashlight of my front deck as it
crashes over my head that thing seemed to be 8 feet , but it was only
four, Perhaps that is where the confusion is.
I will forward the email from Environment Canada if anyone wants it.
 >> Stay informed about: A wave by any other size....